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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 26, 2011 6:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-04-26.sbd.vernon.9197.sbeok.shnf

13 songs were left off the first modern E72 release and are available here to stream.

Interestingly of the 6 Pig tunes performed this night, 4 were left off the commercial release.

Here is what Bob and Phil said in the interview from '95.

MM: I have a bone to pick with Phil. As producer of this project, you left out a great deal of music. It could easily have been a three-CD set.

Lesh: Well, okay, there were certain marketing considerations - which tell us that three-CD sets don't do as well as two-CD sets. And, uh, some of the music was, uh, less well-performed, less interesting, in fact.

Weir: Less lustrous than other parts.

Lesh: And there was some that was badly recorded - there were some recording glitches. So we chose to do it like this.

DG: So unfortunately, a couple of interesting Pigpen performances were lost from there, but we do get, for the first time ever on a real Grateful Dead record, "Next Time You See Me."

Lesh: I don't remember the actual details, guys, but there was something wrong with the other Pigpen material. We didn't leave it out because we didn't wanna put Pigpen songs on there; there's always some reason.

Weir: Grateful Dead revisionism.

Lesh: We may put out another version of the show that is complete, on a cassette perhaps, or something. On a special-order basis or whatever.

http://www.levity.com/gans/hyh.html

I didn't hear any technical problems with Mr. Charlie or Chinatown Shuffle and there is a little pop at the beginning of Two Souls. Two Souls is not nearly as good a version as others from this tour although not bad enough to leave off a release. I skipped Good Lovin'. No one cares about that song anyways. Just kidding, it is actually a very good version. At only 12 min it has some pretty intense jamming and i don't hear any real technical flaws. Maybe the only real issue is the Donna-esque scream that Pig attempts about 8 min in. He has as much success with this approach as Donna. Overall this would seem like a perfect version to put on a release. Maybe Bob's revisionist comment is closer to the truth.

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Poster: Reade Date: Apr 26, 2011 2:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

Two Souls is such a wondeful song. I prefer the one from Paris but am such a fan of the tune I enjoy all the renditions
I knew they left it off the release but didn't know it was available here for streaming.
Thanks for the heads up on this.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Apr 26, 2011 7:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

Already regarded as one of the very finest performances of the tour, I think 4/26/72 is really going to get a boost when the E '72 box is released.

Not only were these important songs excluded, but the track sequence on the Hundred Year Hall release was adulterated. I can't wait till September...

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 27, 2011 9:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

I suspect the marketing considerations quote is pretty close to the truth. Although, and maybe I'm being dumb, but why would 2 CD sets do better than 3 CDs, in the GD universe? I've had this one forever; I'm sure I must have gotten it when it came out, and I hardly think that I'd have not gotten it because of a third CD. Maybe it was put out so early in the history of vault releases they didn't have a fix yet on how much/what people would really buy? (Or heck, maybe it IS about the sound. I just instinctively feel that "marketing considerations" rings truest.)

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 27, 2011 9:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

It sounds like it was the first consideration for cutting songs, however it does not explain why the knife came down so hard on the Pig songs (4 of the 13 cut and 4 of the 6 performed). My guess is that JimF is correct and perhaps there were problems with the 16-track recordings that are not obvious on what is archived here. Although they do mention performance issues before they get around to the technical ones. In the end I think you are correct, though. They probably didn't have the audience well-gauged regarding complete recordings. Funny thing is they seem to make this mistake all the time. Dicks Picks were not initially complete releases nor were Road Trips.

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Poster: Jim F Date: Apr 27, 2011 1:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

Maybe my favorite show from Europe, probably my favorite from 1972, and maybe even my favorite of all time. Well ok I hate to say that because I can't lump 1972 GD with 1968 or 1974 GD, etc.

Anyway I won't go on about how awesome that show is, but the fatal flaw in the recording is that I believe it was said that Pig's organ track is missing on the 16 track reels. I've always wondered if there was a 2 track made of the show, and if it included Pig's organ. This will indeed be one of the finer highlights of the E72 box set.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 27, 2011 3:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

I think most of the sbds here are the 2-track not the 16-track reels. That might explain why these outtakes sounded okay.

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Poster: Jim F Date: Apr 27, 2011 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

I think most all of the E72 shows on here are mixdowns from the multitracks. There are a few exceptions, like some of Rex Jackson's reels (I think 4-11 is one of those sources). I dunno, I'd have to pull out all my sources and all that. You're probably right, a lot of what we do have might be from seperate two track mixes.

Anyway point is I also think that the "outtakes" sound just fine, I dunno what Phil was talking about. Obviously there have been many changes since the release of Hundred Year Hall in 95 ("studies show 3 cd sets don't sell as well as 2 disc sets"). Their whole approach to marketing and releasing vault recordings was a lot different than it is now. I'm sure back then, the idea of something like the Fillmore West or Winterland box sets would have been seen as ludicrous. The attitude towards releases is definitely different, for better or worse.

Plus the internet was way different in the 90's. Charlie Miller alluded to 1999 the other day in a thread about what Phil Matera is doing to some older sources. I first started digital collecting in early 2000, back then everybody got all the new software and used noise reduction on everything and screwed it all up. In the early 2000's I amassed a collection of hundreds of shows, all MP3 sourced, many processed poorly with EQ and NR and other gadgets that were hot at the time. I started getting SHN's back when private servers like TOL were around, but it was the exception (I was also on dialup until 2005). Then of course in the last 6 or 7 years, bit torrent blew up, which was a godsend after access to SHN and FLAC sources was so shortlived here on the LMA.

Of course the old traders will tell you that the early 2000's era is when the interpersonal side of tape trading disappeared and now it's just a bunch of self-entitled brats. And they make a certain point, there was definitely a change from something old into something new. But the technology and overall culture change also affected how official releases are done now. My point is, I guess, is that I think if Hundred Year Hall were to be released now, it would have been a 3 disc set. Well, technically I guess it will be when it comes out in full form in the big box set.

That's another point I was starting to make, how redundancy in my own collection is now becoming similar to how they release official shows. I have all these crappy old transfers in MP3 with NR done to them that I've just had to toss aside in favor of the better transfers available in lossless form. Just like how everybody threw out all their old 20 gen cassettes, I had to throw out my MP3 sources in favor of the new Millerized transfers and such. 15 or 20 years ago, I don't think the powers that be would be re-releasing this stuff so to speak, they would say "well we already released this show and these songs from this tour, so we can't put this out..." I wouldn't be surprised someday, even with the "Ladies and Gentlemen" release, that they'll put out a box set of all the Fillmore East April 1971 shows. "We know we already released this, but with the advent of ___(insert name of new technology, DVD audio, 24/96, etc), we thought we would bring this to you in illustrious Dolby 5.1 blah blah"

Anyway I forgot what I was rambling about. I have things to do around the house anyway, I'm out.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 27, 2011 5:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

This thread from a few days back gave me the impression that we might have the 2-track tapes. Maybe I misinterpreted it.

http://www.archive.org/post/356113/hey-monte

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Poster: amosearle Date: Apr 27, 2011 6:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

I do prefer the "he's gone" versions with the quicker tempo like this one. Very nice.

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Apr 26, 2011 3:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hundred Year Hall Outtakes

Agree on the Good Lovin, elbow. 12 min is perfect. Most of the other stuff is good as well, and the GSET is great!